Writing ember plugins and tutorials in coffeescript is a bad idea

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@mgenev I said exactly the same before as I’ve said now. You have been more measured in your responses this time which I’m grateful for - you haven’t called me a “rude pompous asshole” yet like you did on my blog comments.

I still don’t understand how I’ve been arrogant or insulting - to be arrogant surely I have to assume that I know more or my opinion is more valid than other peoples, which I don’t. I just think that when I’m writing, I can choose to write for whatever target audience I prefer using whichever language I prefer without that being a bad thing. Sure I may lose some audience because of it, but if I accept that then what is wrong with that? It’s my own blog and I can write whatever I like on it - I certainly have never claimed that anyone else is a worse developer for not liking coffeescript - there are many developers better than me that hate it. And I certainly haven’t complained or advocated that any javascript projects should switch to coffeescript. If you asked me if I thought ember should switch to coffeescript I would say no. So I ask again to please explain what I’ve said that is arrogant or insulting?

Anyway, the only reason I’m continuing to post on this is that I believe that it’s important to have a diverse community and I want it to be known that some people think that it’s ok to write blog posts or plugins or whatever in whatever technologies they prefer. If someone wants to write a post or plugin in livescript or typescript or clojurescript that can only be a good thing, because diversity of experience and knowledge is an admirable goal in and of itself. People working in ember have come from many diverse backgrounds and there is much to learn from each of them, and different languages are only one part of this. In fact, coffeescript helped inspire some great new features of ES6 and as such even if you have never used it and hate it has helped improve the javascript language overall. If people worry that they will not be welcome to use different technologies and have to fit in with a javascript monoculture then we all lose.

Note that at no point have I ever claimed that coffeescript is better than javascript or that you are wrong to dislike it - that is a perfectly valid opinion and is fine. Feel free to write whatever resources you want in whatever language you prefer. But I do not feel bad for writing in coffeescript and providing some benefit to some people who are not put off by that, because I am explicitly not trying to make everyone happy when I write blog posts or software. I am just scratching my own itch and sharing what I do in the hope that maybe some others can benefit. Would more people benefit if I wrote in javascript? Maybe, but then maybe I’d be inclined to write less so less people would benefit, and in any case like I said I’m not writing for other people, I’m writing for me. And that’s not arrogant, that is my right as an author. And you are perfectly free to not like it either! But there are some people who prefer reading code in coffeescript, and others who don’t care, and just because you are not one of those groups does not make them wrong, and it doesn’t make me wrong to write for them either.

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I called you that after your responses which you then deleted. Write less? You have 1.5 posts a year x-D

Anyway, this kind of stuff doesn’t belong in this discussion. My point remains, coffeescript is an unnecessary layer. The simpler the better.

Arrows come from coffeescipt? I thought they were around much before that.

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Fat arrows were around in C# before coffeescript I believe, but they have been in coffeescript a lot longer than JS. I do remember reading a post where the inspiration was claimed as coffeescript not C# but I can’t find that source right now so I may be wrong.

If “simpler is better” is true, then ember is a very poor choice of framework as it uses many layers of abstraction, which I personally think is a good thing. In any case, I find coffeescript a layer that is very helpful to me in writing code quickly, and not an “unnecessary layer” like you claim. If I thought it was not beneficial, then I would not use it, so obviously I find it useful in a way that you do not. So when I write as I do quite often here on this forum, less often on my blog, and daily helping people on IRC in #emberjs, I will write coffeescript - even if it does result in a small minority of people calling me names.

I do completely understand your argument - I just happen to disagree with it, and I’m sorry for repeating myself again but this is fine! People can have different opinions and like different things and you don’t have to tell people what they should and shouldn’t write on their own time. People can use whatever they like if they are willing to trade a smaller audience and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that - feel free to write your own resources in whichever language you like and everyone will benefit.

You seem to think that on this issue you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong and has an opinion which is invalid, which ironically is pretty much the definition of arrogance. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you, this does not mean they are wrong or have to change their behaviour.

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@mgenev many people say that this “unnecessary” coffeescript layer is simpler than vanilla JS. I think this is a reason why coffeescript evolved. This layer is only unnecessary for you, not for everyone. Diversity is a good thing and instead of telling the community what to do you should try to deal with it, e.g. by learning the language or by writing JS tutorials yourself to change the situation.

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Too much diversity and too many choices are stifling The Paradox of Choice - Wikipedia

I already am a teacher . I’m speaking from experience with my students.

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I also understand your argument “I write for my own enjoyment and I don’t care what anyone thinks. Nobody can tell me anything. And that’s not arrogant” I also disagree.

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This is a super-productive conversation…

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I understand that language stuff can be a religious issue, but let’s please respect each other.

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