I always curse silently under my breath when Ember blogs use Coffeescript. I agree that it muddies the waters and makes tutorials more difficult to understand for the majority of Ember developers and prospective developers. If you’re going out of your way to make an Ember concept easier for people to understand, it doesn’t make sense to add an unnecessary layer on top that readers have to first translate.
Practically, I think you’ll see that the Ember community is already moving on to ES6, so you’ll find less and less Coffeescript anyway. It was a useful stepping stone.
But I will point out there’s an inherent contradiction in the above complaint: we shouldn’t use CoffeeScript because it’s a fringe thing that only some people understand. Yet you’re apparently encountering it so often you felt the need to complain.
It’s like the old saying “Nobody goes there anymore because it’s too crowded.”
this.foo while happily dealing with more magical things like
I think it’s bikeshedding – people complain about Coffeescript not because it’s hard to understand, but because it’s easy to understand. Meanwhile they just accept all of
Ember.Object because they don’t know how its internals work anyway and they’re not comfortable arguing for why it’s wrong.
I disagree with the assertion that merely providing the impetus for a forum post means that it’s encountered very often. I can easily imagine that @mgenev encountered one or two tutorials on subjects he was very interested in learning about that Coffeescript made it difficult to understand.
I do think it’s important to note however, that accepting
Ember.Object.extend is necessary to understand Ember (at least as a beginner), whereas Coffeescript is certainly not.
Interesting to hear @ef4 say ES6 will replace any need for coffeescript — I guess I need to start learning more ES6!
I think your point here about the relative difficulty of Coffeescript and Ember is a bit off base. I am new to ember and when tutorials have Coffeescript in them it does throw me off. Ember is what I am trying to learn, and so its particular characteristics, whether difficult or not, are part of that learning process, Coffescript is not. Its just another barrier and does make the whole process harder. When I’m trying to figure something out in Ember I dont really want to go off on some Coffeescript tangent to see what is being done.
In my learning efforts, I turn to blog tutorials a lot, and yes indeed, almost every one I found is written in coffeescript, and most bloggers fail to mention it. I remember running into the first one (not even knowing what coffeescript was) and then being totally stumped why i couldn’t get it to work.
You are talking about things people are writing on their own time and sharing for your potential benefit. I have a few example projects out there and if i were constrained to not use coffee, I would definitely do less (and no one is forcing you to look at coffee projects).
If you are willing to try it, you may find yourself pretty fluent in coffee alot sooner than you think.
Being new to ember myself, I think that post should have been phrased a little differently. There is no point trying to force people to not write tutorials in a certain language. The problem simply is that we don’t have enough tutorials. And if you are lucky and find one related to what you are interested in, chances are good it is outdated or it is coffee script (which doesn’t imply that the majority of tutorials are coffee script). But I am pretty sure by the time ember changes less dramatically and the more people using and writing about it, this will improve on its own.
Blogs and tutorials written in Coffeescript is better than no tutorial at all, should it be the case for the write. Tbh. it is not that hard to find a online translater :).
I can understand that Ember is hard to learn.
If you are not a developer (e.g. you can’t distinguish between different languages and are not able to immediately see the difference of JS and Coffeescript) I highly recommend that you stop here, because Ember is a tough framework and needs a lot of developer skills. Ember has a lot of hurdles, but Coffeescript is the tiniest one. As you have seen Ember is relatively new and there are not that much high quality resources for learning. That means you often have to figure out how things work by yourself. If you are not able to use Coffeescript learning resources, then you are not able to use Ember in the near future. Just my opinion as a one year Ember.js and Ember-Data user.
I am not paid to write about ember either here or on my blog. I do it for my own enjoyment, because I enjoy writing and sharing knowledge.
that’s a lot of presumption, nobody’s talking about entitlement, as you can see my post has among the most likes on the first page, a lot of people agree, you can be arrogant and insulting to them, but the point remains
I do hope that calling people names because they do not agree with you makes you feel better, because it will otherwise have very little effect. Of course many people agree with you - but I don’t happen to, and I don’t think you can point to anywhere in my response that was either arrogant or insulting - remember, you are the one here calling people names because their opinion is different to yours and they don’t share your pet peeves, and are demanding other people change their behaviour because of your desires.
I understand completely that coffeescript is not for everyone. If you do not like it, feel free not to write it and not to read it. In the meantime I will continue to write in the language I prefer and if this is not useful to you, no-one is forcing you to use it. Perhaps this can even spur you to do something more productive, like writing your own resources that are in the language that you prefer, and then everyone will benefit.
More presumptions. What name calling? Calling your attitude insulting and arrogant? It is. That’s not name calling.
Please explain how what I have written is either arrogant or insulting by any common definition of those terms, as I fail to see it.
@alexspeller Maybe it’s a difference with an ocean between us, but your attitude does come off arrogant from my point of view. Now, I’m not trying to get into this argument, just thought I’d provide a 3rd party’s view of the situation, of which, I’d just let it go. Opinions have been posted…
@Panman8201 thanks for your comment - I do appreciate a 3rd party point of view and it might be a good time to point out that I have previously had negative interactions with @mgenev in a different context and as such I am inclined to react strongly to his posts to me.
Regardless, I don’t want to be arrogant and it would be very helpful to me to point out why what I say comes off as arrogant as it is not a trait that I would like to exhibit.
it was the exact same context, i made the same point and you reacted even more arrogantly
I don’t think that @alexspeller is arrogant or insulting. He has valid points. He has been giving fair comments and is explaining himself. Nobody should claim that writing stuff in coffeescript is a bad idea if he has no good arguments. And I personally think that blaming coffeescript for missing learning resources is not fair. Saying that you should use option a) only because there are more option a) users is no argument. Before someone starts a post like this he should inform himself about the pros and cons. And if there are valid points, everyone likes to discuss it.